A wedding celebration turned deadly for a Sister’s Village, West Bank Demerara family when an alleged junkie stabbed the groom’s brother-in-law to death.Dead is 48-year-old Arnold Rampersaud Rattan, a tractor operator at the Wales Sugar Estate.Reports indicate that about 23:30h on Monday, during the “Kangan” (day after the wedding) celebration at Rattan’s home, the father of two asked the alleged junkie, known as “Soloman” to leave the premises since he began to misbehave.However, when “Soloman” refused to leave, Rattan opted to push him out of the yard. It was at this point that “Soloman” stabbed him to the left side of his body with a sharp object.Neighbours recalled seeing Rattan drop to his knees while “Soloman” fled the scene but he was subsequently caught by villagers who gave chase.The injured man was rushed to the West Demerara Regional Hospital. However, according to relatives of the injured man, when they arrived at the medical facility, the security guard took almost 15 minutes before he allowed them entrance to the facility. Rattan was later pronounced dead.According to relatives, the dead man’s brother, Deoanand Rattan, was murdered in 2012 and no one was arrested in the matter.“Soloman” was taken into custody and is assisting Police with investigations.
Share Facebook Twitter Google + LinkedIn Pinterest Continuing its commitment to improving water quality in the Western Lake Erie Basin, Legacy Farmers Cooperative in Custar, Ohio has achieved certified status for year three through the 4R Nutrient Stewardship Certification Program.The voluntary certification program is a concentrated effort by the agriculture industry to significantly reduce and prevent applied nutrients from running off fields, which has contributed to water quality issues in Lake Erie. Facilities are required to meet certain program goals each year to retain certified status.With the program in its fourth year, Legacy Farmers joins a growing list of retailers to achieve year three certification.“Legacy Farmers Cooperative sees the importance of this program and take very seriously our responsibility to use best management practices in the recommendations and application of nutrients for our members, customers, and communities,” said Mark Sunderman, president and CEO of Legacy Farmers.Legacy Farmers Cooperative provides a wide variety of services across five Ohio counties. The company’s 10 grain facilities are able to market and handle grain, in addition to its five agronomy locations. The co-op serves the Hancock County area with its petroleum delivery service, featuring petroleum and lubricant products for farm, residential, commercial and industrial uses. Legacy Farmers also manages two petroleum cardtrol fuel stations, operates a Lawn and Pet Retail Store, and provides Turf & Ornamental Products.The 4R program certifies nutrient service providers in the Western Lake Erie Basin and across the state of Ohio that apply or make recommendations are doing so in accordance with 4R Nutrient Stewardship principles – which refers to using the Right Source of Nutrients at the Right Rate and Right Time in the Right Place.Program participants must go through an annual, independent, third-party audit and demonstrate they not only understand 4R principles, but also follow them. The program outlines an initial three-year plan for nutrient service providers, with cumulative requirements for each year of certification. For more information on the yearly requirements, visit 4rcertified.org/how.“The certification program is an ongoing effort for participants and we are proud of Legacy Farmers’ commitment,” said Carrie-Vollmer Sanders, Nutrient Stewardship Council chairwoman. “Legacy Farmers has proven that nutrient stewardship using the 4R principles is a top priority in everyday operations.”Approximately 2.7 million acres and more than 5,500 grower customers are serviced by the 37 facilities in Ohio that have earned 4R Nutrient Stewardship Certification, with approximately 70 percent of those acres located in the Western Lake Erie Basin.The 4R Nutrient Stewardship Certification Program is governed and guided by the Nutrient Stewardship Council, a diverse set of stakeholders from business, government, university and nongovernmental sectors with a common goal of maintaining agricultural productivity while also improving the quality of Lake Erie and its contributing watersheds. The program is administered by the Ohio AgriBusiness Association. For more information, visit 4Rcertified.org, email email@example.com or call 614-326-7520.
To end my three-part report on my trip to Maine, I’ll describe my visits to two new energy-efficient homes — an elegant home in Freeport, and a compact 1,000-square-foot home in Bath.The Freeport home was designed by architect Chris Briley and built by Dan Kolbert. Since the owners of the home haven’t moved in yet, the rooms are still empty of furniture.Most aspects of the home’s thermal envelope are very well detailed. The basement walls are insulated on the interior with R-etro System foam — 4 1/4-in.-thick EPS rated at R-18. The 12-in.-thick above-grade walls are framed with double rows of 2x4s and filled with dense-packed cellulose insulation (R-44), and the insulated sloped ceilings contain 16 in. of dense-packed cellulose (R-60) in unventilated rafter bays.The weak thermal link in the envelope is the windows. Instead of triple-glazed windows, the owners chose double-glazed double-hungs from Bonneville. The 2,600-square-foot home ended up with a design heat load of 50,000 Btuh; according to REM/Rate, it has a HERS Index of 36.Chris Briley prepared a spreadsheet for the owners to compare several space heating options. The installation costs on the spreadsheet ranged from $20,519 (for a propane boiler and a solar domestic hot water system) to $61,908 (for a propane boiler, a PV array, and a large solar thermal system providing DHW and some space heat). The system chosen by the owners — a Viessmann wall-hung propane boiler and a large solar thermal system providing DHW and some space heat — cost $38,325.Space heat is distributed through in-floor radiant tubing in thin concrete slabs poured over wood-framed floors. The home’s total projected annual energy cost for electricity (at 15¢/kWh) and propane (at $2.50/gal.) is $2,085.The last house I visited in Maine was on a wooded site on a hill in Bath, where… Sign up for a free trial and get instant access to this article as well as GBA’s complete library of premium articles and construction details. This article is only available to GBA Prime Members Start Free Trial Already a member? Log in
Pagasa: Storm intensifies as it nears PAR BREAKING: Cop killed, 11 hurt in Misamis Oriental grenade blast In a further boost for Ferrari, his teammate Kimi Raikkonen was second quickest Saturday with 1:12.74.Mercedes driver Valtteri Bottas was third quickest while teammate Lewis Hamilton could only manage fifth and was nearly one second behind Vettel. Teen star Max Verstappen’s Red Bull split the two Mercedes.FEATURED STORIESSPORTSSEA Games: Biñan football stadium stands out in preparedness, completionSPORTSMalditas save PH from shutoutSPORTSPrivate companies step in to help SEA Games hostingIt has been a largely frustrating weekend for Mercedes so far. In Thursday’s second practice, the team botched a tire switch to the ultra-soft compound that saw Hamilton finishing P2 in eighth place with Bottas down in 10th.Hamilton’s best mark this weekend so far was 1:13.425 when he topped P1 ahead of Vettel — his title rival. Ferrari driver Sebastian Vettel of Germany steers his car during the free practice for the Formula One Grand Prix at the Monaco racetrack in Monaco, Saturday, May 27, 2017. The Formula one race will be held on Sunday. (AP Photo/Frank Augstein)MONACO — Ferrari driver Sebastian Vettel warmed up for qualifying at the Monaco Grand Prix with the fastest time in the third and final practice session on Saturday.The four-time Formula One champion looks in scintillating form, clocking the fastest-ever lap time in Monaco to top Thursday’s second practice and setting a new mark Saturday with 1:12.395. The German driver will be confident of a 48th career pole position in qualifying later.ADVERTISEMENT LATEST STORIES BSP survey: PH banks see bright horizon amid dark global recession clouds Panelo suggests discounted SEA Games tickets for students PLAY LIST 01:35Panelo suggests discounted SEA Games tickets for students02:49Robredo: True leaders perform well despite having ‘uninspiring’ boss02:42PH underwater hockey team aims to make waves in SEA Games01:44Philippines marks anniversary of massacre with calls for justice01:19Fire erupts in Barangay Tatalon in Quezon City01:07Trump talks impeachment while meeting NCAA athletes Ocon found that out the hard way, and his mechanics had two hours to get his car ready for qualifying.Sports Related Videospowered by AdSparcRead Next Palace: Duterte to hear out security execs on alleged China control of NGCP Cayetano dares Lacson, Drilon to take lie-detector test: Wala akong kinita sa SEA Games Every 18 seconds someone is diagnosed with HIV Vettel leads the standings by six points ahead of three-time F1 champion Hamilton. They have won two races each and Bottas clinched the other.P3 was briefly held up near the end after Esteban Ocon — driving at the Monaco GP for the first time — crashed his Force India.Ocon misjudged a turn coming out near the Swimming Pool exit and went straight on into the barriers, mangling his car’s suspension.The car was lifted off the track by crane and the 20-year-old Frenchman, who finished fifth at the Spanish GP two weeks ago, was unharmed.The smallest braking mistake on Monaco’s tight and sinewy 3.4-kilometer (2.1-mile) circuit — through the winding streets of Monte Carlo, past its famed casino and around its glittering, yacht-dotted harbor — can send a driver into the barriers.ADVERTISEMENT BREAKING: Cop killed, 11 hurt in Misamis Oriental grenade blast NLEX nips Phoenix, ends campaign with back-to-back wins Don’t miss out on the latest news and information. Lacson: SEA Games fund put in foundation like ‘Napoles case’ View comments MOST READ
The Ministry of Health (MOH) will be ramping up its public education campaign on its initiative to prevent cervical cancer, through the introduction of the Human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine programme.In a Statement to the House of Representatives today (October 3), Portfolio Minister, Dr. the Hon. Christopher Tufton, said experts from the Ministry have been on the airwaves explaining the vaccination campaign and will continue to facilitate any opportunity to enlighten the public.“The MOH, through the regional health authorities and the local health departments, will continue to engage the parents through the parent-teacher associations (PTAs) and the schools’ administration to ensure the dissemination of information, education and communication material,” Dr. Tufton said.He said the Ministry is aware that there are lingering concerns in the public and that such members can call the Ministry’s toll-free line 1-888-ONE LOVE or 1-888-663-5683 to clarify those concerns.The vaccine is being offered to girls in grade seven, between the age of nine and 14 years, free of cost. The vaccine is not mandatory. The target is approximately 22,500 girls, and each girl will need two doses given six months apart for full protection.To date, more than 300 students in four schools have received the vaccine, while 20 opted out of the process. The four schools are Oberlin and Papine High in Kingston and St. Andrew, and Titchfield and Happy Grove in Portland.Various stakeholder sensitisation sessions have been conducted, including sessions with the Ministry of Education, Youth and Information; public-sector healthcare workers; the Paediatric Association of Jamaica; Private Sector Organisation of Jamaica; National Parenting Support Commission; Jamaica Council of Churches; Jamaica Umbrella Group of Churches; school nurses; guidance counsellors; and Health and Family Life Education coordinators.Dr. Tufton informed that “Dear Parent” letters and accompanying fact sheets were distributed to schools for inclusion in the grade-seven school packages at the end of the last academic year to sensitise parents/guardians to the planned vaccine introduction.Six Focus Group discussions with parents and girls were conducted in Kingston, Montego Bay and Clarendon and parent/student sensitisation sessions were done in Westmoreland, St. James, St. Catherine, Kingston and St. Andrew, St. Elizabeth, Manchester, Clarendon, Portland and St. Ann. A Media Sensitisation Forum was held on September 29.Media Interviews are ongoing with the Jamaica Information Service, IRIE FM, Nationwide 90 FM, News Talk 93 FM, RJR Group of Companies, and CVM Television. Print Placement of HPV information is ongoing and radio and television commercials will be placed.Meanwhile, Dr. Tufton highlighted that the HPV vaccines are safe, noting that more than 200 million doses have been given around the world with no major side effects.He said the most common side effects of the vaccine include redness, swelling and tenderness to the injection site. Other less-common effects include fever, nausea and upset stomach. The vaccine is being offered to girls in grade seven, between the age of nine and 14 years, free of cost. The vaccine is not mandatory. The target is approximately 22,500 girls, and each girl will need two doses given six months apart for full protection. In a Statement to the House of Representatives today (October 3), Portfolio Minister, Dr. the Hon. Christopher Tufton, said experts from the Ministry have been on the airwaves explaining the vaccination campaign and will continue to facilitate any opportunity to enlighten the public. Story Highlights The Minister further informed that the HPV vaccine was included in the national schedules of France (2007), the United Kingdom (2008), the Netherlands (2009), Canada (2007-2009), Mexico (2012), Panama (2008), USA and Puerto Rico (2006), Bermuda (2008), St. Maarten and Trinidad and Tobago (2013), and Barbados (2015), to name a few.“The Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) has carefully monitored the safety of the HPV vaccine and thoroughly investigated reported cases of adverse effects supposedly attributed to the HPV vaccine,” Dr. Tufton said.The World Health Organization (WHO) Committee on Vaccine Safety has confirmed that none of the conditions investigated were due to the HPV vaccine, and in December 2015 issued the following statement: “To date, GACVS has not found any safety issue that would alter its recommendations for the use of the vaccine.” he added.Dr. Tufton said that cervical cancer is a major public health problem in Jamaica, as almost 50 per cent of the women who are diagnosed each year will die from this preventable disease.He said the MOH has, therefore, introduced the HPV vaccine to provide 90-100 per cent protection against HPV types 16 and 18.The Minister noted that the HPV vaccine has been available in the private sector for several years now and is, therefore, not a new vaccine to the population.In addition, Dr. Tufton said the MOH has employed a school-based strategy for implementation to facilitate greater access to the population, as parents will not have to miss work or students school in order to benefit.He also informed that prior to immunisation, education sessions are held with the girls to be vaccinated. A brief medical history is conducted to ascertain the girls’ fitness and eligibility for vaccination.“As is customary with all outreach and school vaccination programmes, safety measures are in place to treat emergencies. Additionally, the surveillance mechanism monitors and investigates all events supposedly attributable to vaccination or immunisation,” the Health Minister said.A budget was crafted for approximately $100 million for year one of the HPV vaccine introduction, which includes social mobilisation and communication; cold chain equipment; training and sensitisation; and procurement of vaccines and vaccination supplies. The estimated annual cost after introduction is $73 million.A total of 48,000 doses of bivalent vaccine were ordered for 2017, through the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) Expanded Programme on Immunization Revolving Fund, at a cost of US$7.80 per dose.Cervical cancer is the second leading cause of cancer-related mortality in Jamaica and remains a significant public health concern. Current estimates indicate that every year, 392 women are diagnosed with cervical cancer; 185 die from the disease, with the majority of deaths occurring in women between 40 and 64 years of age.For further information, the public can email the Ministry at: firstname.lastname@example.org. Additional information is available at www.moh.gov.jm. The Ministry of Health (MOH) will be ramping up its public education campaign on its initiative to prevent cervical cancer, through the introduction of the Human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine programme.
On Saturday youth from around the world gathered at the U.N. for the first-ever Youth Climate Summit ahead of Monday’s event.They said they were segregated from the day’s events, which featured youth proposing solutions to address the climate crisis.“There wasn’t really much dialogue at all about incorporating Indigenous peoples or even having us represent ourselves at this forum,” said Julia Faye Munoz, who is Chimorio from Guam and the Greater Mariana Islands.Indigenous youth were excluded from sessions Saturday, but given their own event, which was poorly attended, Munoz explained.Makasa Looking Horse was invited to open the youth summit with a blessing.The 25-year-old leader is Lakota and Mohawk from Six Nations. She is the daughter of Chief Arvol Looking Horse, the 19th generation keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Woman pipe.“I did not come here to play, or this isn’t for show,” she said, holding the pipe ahead of her prayer.Looking Horse told youth delegates that the White Buffalo Calf Woman “declared we treat all of creation with respect to honour our mother,” adding “she warned my people of the time we are in today, and that she would return to help us as a white buffalo calf.”She said that prophesy has begun.“I will honour her today for asking, honour her today for her blessing to guide us, the seventh generation.”Beyond the blessing, the Indigenous youth felt excluded from the summit and left feeling dejected, they said.“They need to provide space and get Indigenous people there in those spaces to truly make a difference, I think, because we already have the knowledge, we already know what we’re doing. We know what we want,” Looking Horse told APTN.“There was a disconnect,” she said, adding the global youth and Indigenous youth were “both talking about the same thing, and we’re in two different rooms. And I think that speaks volumes about how this topic is treated regarding Indigenous people.”Global Indigenous Youth Caucus Co-chair Victor Lopez-Carmen said many Indigenous youth “lack hope, because they can’t see a future for themselves in their traditional lands.“They feel their culture’s being ripped from them by settler states…who don’t care about the land or the Earth. And that’s really tough for Indigenous youth. But we have the strength of our elders and our ancestors pushing us, and we know that with their guidance we’ll be able to carry this fight forward.”Liberal leader Justin Trudeau did not attend the summit due to Canada’s election period being underway.But on Monday Green Party leader Elizabeth May issued a statement condemning Canada’s absence, saying she proposed during an emergency climate change debate in the House of Commons in June that the federal party leaders attend together and strengthen Canada’s commitment to cutting carbon emissions.“It would be unprecedented,” she said, “but this crisis demands that we move beyond the status quo.”May said none of the party leaders responded to her proposal.Global Affairs Canada confirmed Monday that Canada’s Ambassador for Climate Change, Patricia Fuller, attended the summit on Monday, but a spokesperson told APTN they “politely decline your request for [an] interview at this time.”On Monday morning Swedish youth climate activist Greta Thunberg addressed leaders, scolding them for their inadequate responses to the crisis.“You have stolen my dreams and my childhood with your empty words,” she said in a powerful speech. “And yet I’m one of the lucky ones. People are suffering. People are dying. Entire ecosystems are collapsing. We are in the beginning of a mass extinction, and all you can talk about is money and fairy tales of eternal economic growth. How dare you.”U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres, who convened the summit ahead of December’s global climate summit in Chile, also reprimanded world leaders.“Nature is angry,” he said. “And we fool ourselves if we think we can fool nature, because nature always strikes back, and around the world nature is striking back with fury.”The #FridaysForFuture school strike started by Thunberg last year in Sweden has grown into a worldwide movement.Last Friday students in towns and cities across Canada and around the world skipped school to protest their governments’ inaction.On Sept. 27 Thunberg will join students in Montreal for another school strike global day of action.Looking Horse said she valued the time she was given to open the youth summit with a blessing, but said knowledge like the teachings of the White Buffalo Calf Woman pipe will not be heard if Indigenous peoples aren’t meaningfully included in plans for climate action.“The message that the White Buffalo Calf Woman gave us was to always work in unity and keep praying together with our bundles, our pipes, because that’s the only way that we will get through the tough times that are coming,” she email@example.com@justinbrakenews Justin BrakeAPTN NewsDays after millions took to the streets to demand political action on climate change, world leaders met at the United Nations in New York City to ramp up efforts to meet strict carbon reduction targets laid out by climate scientists.But the holders of ancient knowledge many regard as a fundamental piece to a global solution on climate change were largely absent.Just one Indigenous leader was permitted to speak at the summit Monday, and he was only given two minutes.Tuntiak Katan from the Shuar people of Ecuador told world leaders Indigenous peoples around the world would make three commitments to addressing the climate emergency.Those included leading “the implementation of holistic plans to protect biocultural diversity,” developing actions to secure Indigenous peoples’ “rights to lands, territories and resources, self-determination and free, prior and informed consent (FPIC),” and to “access the development of renewable energies” in accordance with self-determination and FPIC,” Katan told world leaders Monday.Indigenous delegates who attended the summit said Indigenous peoples were not meaningfully engaged or included, despite stewarding the vast majority of the world’s biodiversity in their traditional territories, and despite having unique solutions rooted in ancient knowledge.Eriel Deranger of Indigenous Climate Action said the U.N.’s limited inclusion of Indigenous leadership is “tokenistic,” and that there has been no “substantive Indigenous rights integration or Indigenous peoples integrated into the systems.”At one point on Monday Chief Raoni Metuktire of the Kayapo people in the Brazilian Amazon—a revered leader—showed up at the summit but was turned away by security.Leila Salazar-Lopez of Amazon Watch saw Metuktire be denied access.“The forests and the lives, and the rights and the territories of Indigenous peoples are under attack. And it is not an exaggeration to say there is a genocide being committed on Indigenous peoples right now,” she told APTN News.
SYDNEY, Australia — Australia is referring India to the World Trade Organization over subsidies it pays its sugar cane farmers, which Australia says creates a surplus that’s affecting its own farmers.Trade Minister Simon Birmingham says Australia made the WTO referral after previously raising concerns with India over what Canberra says are more than $725 million ($1 billion AUD) in subsidies paid to Indian farmers.Birmingham says while the case may take a long time to be resolved, he hopes it will prompt India to changes its mind on the subsidies.Initial discussions on Australia’s case would take place at the WTO’s Committee on Agriculture meeting later this month.The Associated Press
FORT ST. JOHN, B.C. — Two Vancouver-based lawyers will be hitting the road in a 24-foot RV to bring legal services to residents in Northern BC over the next few weeks.Two of the three founders of Reach Legal, which was launched last month, will be clocking more than 2,500 kilometres over 10 days this month to bring much-needed legal services to residents of underserved communities. Reach Legal operates on a web-based platform to offer individuals and businesses across the province convenience, flexibility, and options when choosing a new lawyer.“We believe that all BC residents should have access to specialized legal services, regardless of the size or location of their community,” said Erin Brandt, one of the lawyers behind Reach Legal, and the official route planner for the RV trip. Lawyers Erin Brandt, left, and Paula Krawus are travelling Northern B.C. in The Law Bus. Supplied photo.The “Law Bus” journey will visit communities from Williams Lake to Fort Nelson, including: Quesnel, Mackenzie, Tumbler Ridge, Dawson Creek, Fort St. John and Chetwynd.“In smaller communities it can be a real challenge for residents to find expert legal representation. In some cases, it’s practically impossible,” said Simon Kent, another of Reach Legal’s founders.Kent cites examples of cases where a community may not have two lawyers available for a divorce case, leaving one spouse without representation. Reach Legal hopes to fill this gap with its innovative plan to offer legal services via video conferencing and other mobile options. The legal team said it will travel as needed for court appearances, and is also planning to provide support for their fellow lawyers already practising across B.C.“Lawyers in smaller communities are often asked to take on complex cases that require specialized knowledge outside their primary practice area, simply because there are no other local options,” said Brandt. “We hope to act as a bridge for these lawyers, connecting them with legal professionals who can consult on specific cases and specialized areas of law. The idea is to build a stronger community of legal professionals in these regions, by supporting what is already working.” The Reach Legal RV’s itinerary is as follows: Tuesday, May 8: QuesnelWednesday, May 9: MackenzieThursday, May 10: Tumbler RidgeThursday, May 10: Dawson CreekFriday, May 11: Fort St. JohnSunday, May 13 – Tuesday, May 15: Fort NelsonTuesday, May 15 Thursday, May 17: Fort St. JohnThursday, May 17: Chetwynd (tentative)
NEW DELHI: Delhi Police has busted a gang which lured men into swapping their credit cards in return of 2 percent commission. Three cheats Gopal Das, Surender Kumar Arora and Gopinder has been arrested by Delhi Police. They were duping public providing money by credit cards swapping and recovered Credit Card Swapping Machines (POS Machines), laptop, mobile phones, SIM cards and forged documents related with a different company, linked bank account details etc, on their instance. The complainant saw an advertisement pasted on the road side about swapping of credit cards on a 2% commission basis along with a mobile number. Also Read – Odd-Even: CM seeks transport dept’s views on exemption to women, two wheelers, CNG vehiclesHe needed money for his family use and to meet the educational expenses of his children. He made a call and a youngster came to him and swapped his credit card for Rs 2,00,000 and told him that he would get his amount through his account after deducting 3% commission and left the place without giving any cash to him. He later realised he was cheated. The police arrested the three accused on 5 May. “Surender convinced his elder brother Gopal and Bhanja Gopinder for this conspiracy and used them to open bank accounts, forged company and to arrange mobile SIM cards. Apart from that, he purchased 9-11, POS Machines from an authorised Company. He transfers the amount to the forged company’s account and transfer to multiple accounts,” said DCP Madhur Verma.
Jaap Stam believes that Tottenham manager Maurizio Pochettino is the right choice for United as they seek a permanent manager to replace Jose Mourinho.Pochettino has been widely named as Mourinho’s replacement by pundits and former United players like Gary Neville, and now Jaap Stam.“He is the best choice,” Stam told Sky Sports News.Maguire says United need to build on today’s win George Patchias – September 14, 2019 Harry Maguire wants his United teammates to build on the victory over Leicester City.During the summer, Harry Maguire was referred to as the ultimate…“He’s got a lot of experience working in the UK with Southampton and Tottenham. He’s good in building a team, plays attractive football, playing out from the back to score goals and win games. I would say that’s my choice.“I think they can [get him]. There’s been a discussion at Spurs about not spending money on players, I think he is the type of manager who wants to invest every year and improve – at United he gets to do that.“They’ve got the money to do that. For him, that would be the ultimate step.”